Tuesday, April 10, 2007

[kanoshia] [understanding_islam_quran] Re: {Bible And Quran} INCOMPARATIVE: DR ZAKIR NAIK

--- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com, "gmuzafary_2006"
<gmuzafary_2006@...> wrote:
>
> --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com, "G.Waleed Kavalec" <kavalec@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Walaikum asalaam
> >
> > How many times have I asked you to read al-Maidah? circa ayat 40?
> > Have you bothered to do so?
> >
> > Allah's orders have come many times, not just in the Quran.
> >
> > The Quran tells us that believers include those who say "la
illaha
> ila
> > Allah"; note that the word is believer (mumin) not Muslim.
> >
> > > so when you bring the aya what are you trying to prove?
> > > that allah will forgive those who will refuse islam who will
live
> > > their lives free from worships(i dont mean only salaah by
worship)
> > > will be the same as us?they will be called as moslims?
> >
> > I am not "proving" anything, I am reminding you what Allah says -
> > that BELIEVERS will be judged by the scriptures they followed.
> >
> > What they will be called on that Last Day is not for YOU or ME to
> say.
> >
> > That right belongs only to Allah.
> >
> > > maybe this is the third time iam saying this...
> >
> > Say it a million more time, use all the oceans for ink and all
the
> forests
> > for pens, and what you say cannot shout down one single word of
> what Allah
> > has revealed in the Quran.
> >
> > I am truly saddend you don't understand this. It is for HIM to
> decide who
> > are believers.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 05 Apr 2007 13:04:16 -0700, gmuzafary_2006 <gmuzafary_2006@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > sallam,
> > >
> > > let me ask you some questions.
> > >
> > > how can a person obay allah if he does not know his orders?
> > >
> > > where can a person get information to serve allah excatly how he
> > > wants?
> > >
> > > how can a person be nonmoslim if he or she believes in lailaha
> > > ilaallah mohamad urasullah?
> > >
> > > lets not go circle any more.
> > >
> > > those who had came to the world before hazrat mohamad
s,a,w,they
> got
> > > diffrent books then qoran,they will be judged according to
their
> book
> > > and messanger.so when you bring the aya what are you trying to
> prove?
> > > that allah will forgive those who will refuse islam who will
live
> > > their lives free from worships(i dont mean only salaah by
worship)
> > > will be the same as us?they will be called as moslims?
> > >
> > > maybe this is the third time iam saying this that what ever
> religion
> > > or worship style poeple had before the last prophet s,a,w.it was
> > > eccepted,but once allah sended a light like prophet mohamad
s,a,w
> > > there was supose to be only one true religion,poeple were
supose
> to
> > > obay allah and his prophet s,a,w.poeple refused the prophet.
> > >
> > > our discussion is going slowly to the diffrent direction i
guess.
> > >
> > > if some body eccept allah,he is no more nonmoslim,he cant refuse
> > > islam.as simple as that.
> > >
> > > but if some one refuse islam and qoran,then he is kafar,and we
> shuld
> > > not have any brotherhood with them as shariq said why we cant?
> > >
> > > hopefully this time iam making things clear,that those who are
> > > nonmoslims are not our brothers or sisters.because they dont
> eccept
> > > allah and his orders.
> > >
> > > allah nigheban
> > >
> > > gullpary muzafary
> > > age=22
> > > toronto,canada
> > >
> > > --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com <kanoshia%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, "G.WaleedKavalec" <kavalec@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Walaikum asalaam
> > > >
> > > > No, again we must not over-simplify.
> > > >
> > > > The Quran clearly tells us in surah al-Maidah that those who
> follow
> > > other
> > > > scriptures are to be judged by those scriptures. Let us be
clear
> > > on this:
> > > > it is not for you or I to nay-say His commands, is it?
> > > >
> > > > You are correct, there is no reason for someone to refuse
Islam
> if
> > > they
> > > > truly believer "la ilaha ila Allah".
> > > >
> > > > But, I repeat, there is Islam - submission to our Creator -
and
> > > there is
> > > > "Islam" as packaged by various sects and madhabs and an
> assortment
> > > of
> > > > self-promoters. People may avoid the Islam they see on Fox or
> > > CNN... never
> > > > knowing they are passing up a treasure.
> > > >
> > > > But if an individual believes in his Creator and sincerely
> strives
> > > to obey
> > > > scripture - including giving attention to the inate sense of
> right
> > > and wrong
> > > > Allah places in all of our hearts (see al Baqara 2:256) -
then
> that
> > > person
> > > > must be treated as a believer. The fact that their scripture
> may be
> > > > outdated is not the issue.
> > > >
> > > > The Quran says this, it says it clearly.
> > > > Be careful and think before you contradict the One Who wrote
it!
> > > > --
> > > > --
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > G. Waleed Kavalec
> > > > -------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 05 Apr 2007 09:29:58 -0700, gmuzafary_2006
<gmuzafary_2006@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > sallam,
> > > > >
> > > > > let me get this straight,you are saying that those who
refuse
> > > islam
> > > > > but they say yes there is a creator.that person is a person
> with
> > > > > right faith and right mind?if this is what you mean iam
sorry
> to
> > > say
> > > > > that you might be wrong,because there is no reason for some
> one to
> > > > > refuse islam,if they truely believe in allah,there is no
> todays
> > > islam
> > > > > and tomorrow or yesterdays islam,islam is only one true way
to
> > > know
> > > > > allah,yes poeple have been changed time by time,they are
> geting
> > > more
> > > > > modern,but if some one wants to find out true islam,they
can
> find
> > > it
> > > > > easily,and a true lover of allah will never refuse his last
> > > messanger
> > > > > s,a,w.trust me on this one.its an other story if they have
> not got
> > > > > the knowledge about islam yet,and they are worshiping allah
by
> > > their
> > > > > own style,which is impossible in this time.
> > > > >
> > > > > there are those who follow other scriptures let them be
> judged by
> > > > > those scriptures.as i said before,before the prophet
mohamad
> s,a,w
> > > > > there were other books which came down,and every nation
will
> be
> > > > > judged according to there book and messanger and there
> time.allah
> > > is
> > > > > talking about those who reacieved his diffent book at
diffrent
> > > > > times.all the books were telling the poeple the same
thing.so
> > > there
> > > > > should not be any diffrence between books of allah,those
who
> have
> > > > > pure faith will never refuse allah 12 imam a,s and the
prophet
> > > > > mohamad s,a,w after geting all the information on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > and if they refuse after all the evidence which will prove
> that
> > > islam
> > > > > is the only way to reach allah,to achieve success in the
here
> > > > > after,and they say they still believe in allah.trust me
they
> are
> > > > > liers.its an excuse they will make.
> > > > >
> > > > > and other then true moslims we have no heart relation with
any
> > > human
> > > > > being,because those who reject allah are not among us.we
have
> got
> > > two
> > > > > diffrent paths,path of allah and path of shaitan.
> > > > >
> > > > > allah nigheban
> > > > >
> > > > > gullpary muzafary
> > > > > age=22
> > > > > toronto,canada
> > > > > --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com <kanoshia%
> 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>, "G.WaleedKavalec" <kavalec@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Walaikum asalaam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What gets presented to the non-Muslim world as "Islam"
> > > > > > vs. what Islam actually is
> > > > > > are two very different things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Allah knows the intent of each person; if someone has
> rejected
> > > > > today's
> > > > > > "packaging" of Islam it does not mean they are refusing to
> > > submit
> > > > > to the
> > > > > > Creator.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Go back to Surah 5, start at ayat 40 and read about a
dozen
> > > > > verses. That is
> > > > > > your Creator talking, and HE says there of that those who
> follow
> > > > > the other
> > > > > > scriptures "let them be judged" by those scriptures.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, no, they are NOT obligated to become Quran-reading
> Muslims.
> > > > > They are
> > > > > > obligated to be true to their monotheistic faith as they
> > > understand
> > > > > it...
> > > > > > the rest is between each of them and Allah.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 04 Apr 2007 12:37:37 -0700, gmuzafary_2006
> <gmuzafary_2006@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > sallam,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i got your point now,yes all those who believe in allah
> are
> > > > > > > moslims,not nonmoslims or unbelievers,but shariq was
> talking
> > > about
> > > > > > > nonmoslims,there no single person in the world who
truely
> > > believe
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > allah and refuse to live according of qoran,and the
> messanger
> > > of
> > > > > > > allah.before islam allah sended other messangers,who
were
> > > teaching
> > > > > > > the same thing prophet mohamad s,a,w did,so when the
> prophet
> > > came
> > > > > > > every body were supose to agree with him and qoran,they
> were
> > > > > supose
> > > > > > > to eccept injil turat zabur and qoran,but they didnot
so
> they
> > > > > became
> > > > > > > nonmoslims,we belive in all the books of allah as long
as
> its
> > > not
> > > > > > > mixed up with writings of human beings.but they
dont.they
> > > their
> > > > > > > children are exactly the same,but if their is a single
> person
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > world who would agree with qoran and all other true
books
> of
> > > allah
> > > > > > > (not the bible now which has been changed several times)
> and
> > > he or
> > > > > she
> > > > > > > eccept his or her existence as a servant of allah,no
> metter
> > > what
> > > > > > > culture what religion what background she/he is he/she
is
> not
> > > > > > > nonmoslim or unbeliever any more,and with that kind of
> poeple
> > > are
> > > > > > > from usbut other then that i dont think there is any
> > > agrremnets
> > > > > > > between us or brotherhood.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > allah nigehban
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > gullpary muzafary
> > > > > > > age=22
> > > > > > > toronto,canada
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com <kanoshia%
> 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, "G.WaleedKavalec" <kavalec@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Walaikum asalaam
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i guess my point is that there is no brotherhood
> between
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > lovers and the enemies of the creator.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree wholeheartedly. My counter-point is that we
must
> > > learn
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > recognize
> > > > > > > > those who love the Creator but who have come along
via
> other
> > > > > paths.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Quran tells us "to every people was sent a
> messenger".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Even though those other messengers' messages in other
> > > cultures
> > > > > were
> > > > > > > largely
> > > > > > > > lost or corrupted there have always been truth
seekers
> in
> > > those
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > cultures who worked to find the uncorrupted kernals
> left in
> > > what
> > > > > > > they found
> > > > > > > > in their lifetimes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > THESE people are brothers.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > G. Waleed Kavalec
> > > > > > > > -------------------------
> > > > > > > > Age 53
> > > > > > > > Richmond, TX
> > > > > > > > http://IslamAwakend.com/Quran
> <http://islamawakend.com/Quran>
> > > <http://islamawakend.com/Quran> <
> > > > > http://islamawakend.com/Quran>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 03 Apr 2007 16:02:20 -0700, gmuzafary_2006
> > > <gmuzafary_2006@>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > sallam,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > maybe iam addressing you both,the problem is that
they
> > > will
> > > > > never
> > > > > > > > > wage war directly,they undermine our religion with
> > > > > wisdom,they are
> > > > > > > > > not gonna stand against and give us awarness of
> that,how
> > > did
> > > > > > > shiatan
> > > > > > > > > successfully made adam o hawa agree to disobay
> allah,by
> > > sweet
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > soft words.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > i guess my point is that there is no brotherhood
> between
> > > the
> > > > > > > lovers
> > > > > > > > > and the enemies of the creator.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > we should share our knowledge,truth should never
hurt
> > > us,we
> > > > > must
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > ability to eccept it.from the begining of donia
there
> > > were no
> > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > relation between us and them,now they can fool us
> thats
> > > why we
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > lost our power,islam used to rule the world,but now
> world
> > > is
> > > > > > > ruling
> > > > > > > > > islam,there is a reason behind it,and thats our
> silence
> > > > > infront of
> > > > > > > > > nahaq.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > hopefully i made my self clear enough.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > allah nigehban
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > gullpary muzafary
> > > > > > > > > age=22
> > > > > > > > > toronto,canada
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com <kanoshia%
> 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, "G.WaleedKavalec" <kavalec@>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Salaam
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Are you addressing me or Hamid?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Either way, unbelievers are only forbidded from
> Mecca.
> > > > > Beyond
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > we are
> > > > > > > > > > not to be oppressor or transgress limits.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > IF THEY WAGE WAR ON US then we retailiate.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What part of this is unclear? It is in your
Quran,
> read
> > > it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 03 Apr 2007 11:11:54 -0700, gmuzafary_2006
> > > > > <gmuzafary_2006@>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > beleieve me or not you are totally lost mr
> hamid,how
> > > is it
> > > > > > > > > possible
> > > > > > > > > > > for us to co-exist peacefully with unbeleivers?
> they
> > > dont
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > leave their path,and we have got two diffrent
> > > > > directions,they
> > > > > > > > > ignore
> > > > > > > > > > > allah,we worship him,unless if we want to become
> > > monafiqs
> > > > > > > thats a
> > > > > > > > > > > diffrent case.but if your imaan is pure you
cant
> live
> > > > > > > peacefully
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > them,becuase world of allah and the world of
> shaitan
> > > is
> > > > > never
> > > > > > > > > > > alike.this world is made for shitan to live and
> for
> > > human
> > > > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > be tasted,no thing more nothing less.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > --
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > G. Waleed Kavalec
> > > > > > -------------------------
> > > > > > This email message is for the sole use of the intended
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> > > > > > escape because appropriate authorities have already been
> > > notified.
> > > > > We know
> > > > > > where you've been.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > --
> >
> > G. Waleed Kavalec
> > -------------------------
> > This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient
(s)
> and may
> > contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not
an
> intended
> > recipient of this document, please notify the sender, delete it
and
> do not
> > read, act upon, print, disclose, copy, retain or redistribute it.
> In fact it
> > would be best all around for you to burn your computer then
report
> to the
> > nearest office of the Department of Homeland Security and turn
> yourself in
> > as a potential danger to the moral fabric of America and a
serious
> risk to
> > the purity of apple pie. If you actually are an intended
recipient
> of this
> > document you are probably far worse than that and had better be
> making your
> > escape because appropriate authorities have already been
notified.
> We know
> > where you've been.
> >
>

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