Monday, April 9, 2007

[kanoshia] [understanding_islam_quran] Re: {Bible And Quran} INCOMPARATIVE: DR ZAKIR NAIK

--- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com, "G.Waleed Kavalec" <kavalec@...>
wrote:
>
> Walaikum asalaam
>
> How many times have I asked you to read al-Maidah? circa ayat 40?
> Have you bothered to do so?
>
> Allah's orders have come many times, not just in the Quran.
>
> The Quran tells us that believers include those who say "la illaha
ila
> Allah"; note that the word is believer (mumin) not Muslim.
>
> > so when you bring the aya what are you trying to prove?
> > that allah will forgive those who will refuse islam who will live
> > their lives free from worships(i dont mean only salaah by worship)
> > will be the same as us?they will be called as moslims?
>
> I am not "proving" anything, I am reminding you what Allah says -
> that BELIEVERS will be judged by the scriptures they followed.
>
> What they will be called on that Last Day is not for YOU or ME to
say.
>
> That right belongs only to Allah.
>
> > maybe this is the third time iam saying this...
>
> Say it a million more time, use all the oceans for ink and all the
forests
> for pens, and what you say cannot shout down one single word of
what Allah
> has revealed in the Quran.
>
> I am truly saddend you don't understand this. It is for HIM to
decide who
> are believers.
>
>
>
>
> On 05 Apr 2007 13:04:16 -0700, gmuzafary_2006 <gmuzafary_2006@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > sallam,
> >
> > let me ask you some questions.
> >
> > how can a person obay allah if he does not know his orders?
> >
> > where can a person get information to serve allah excatly how he
> > wants?
> >
> > how can a person be nonmoslim if he or she believes in lailaha
> > ilaallah mohamad urasullah?
> >
> > lets not go circle any more.
> >
> > those who had came to the world before hazrat mohamad s,a,w,they
got
> > diffrent books then qoran,they will be judged according to their
book
> > and messanger.so when you bring the aya what are you trying to
prove?
> > that allah will forgive those who will refuse islam who will live
> > their lives free from worships(i dont mean only salaah by worship)
> > will be the same as us?they will be called as moslims?
> >
> > maybe this is the third time iam saying this that what ever
religion
> > or worship style poeple had before the last prophet s,a,w.it was
> > eccepted,but once allah sended a light like prophet mohamad s,a,w
> > there was supose to be only one true religion,poeple were supose
to
> > obay allah and his prophet s,a,w.poeple refused the prophet.
> >
> > our discussion is going slowly to the diffrent direction i guess.
> >
> > if some body eccept allah,he is no more nonmoslim,he cant refuse
> > islam.as simple as that.
> >
> > but if some one refuse islam and qoran,then he is kafar,and we
shuld
> > not have any brotherhood with them as shariq said why we cant?
> >
> > hopefully this time iam making things clear,that those who are
> > nonmoslims are not our brothers or sisters.because they dont
eccept
> > allah and his orders.
> >
> > allah nigheban
> >
> > gullpary muzafary
> > age=22
> > toronto,canada
> >
> > --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com <kanoshia%
40yahoogroups.com>, "G.WaleedKavalec" <kavalec@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Walaikum asalaam
> > >
> > > No, again we must not over-simplify.
> > >
> > > The Quran clearly tells us in surah al-Maidah that those who
follow
> > other
> > > scriptures are to be judged by those scriptures. Let us be clear
> > on this:
> > > it is not for you or I to nay-say His commands, is it?
> > >
> > > You are correct, there is no reason for someone to refuse Islam
if
> > they
> > > truly believer "la ilaha ila Allah".
> > >
> > > But, I repeat, there is Islam - submission to our Creator - and
> > there is
> > > "Islam" as packaged by various sects and madhabs and an
assortment
> > of
> > > self-promoters. People may avoid the Islam they see on Fox or
> > CNN... never
> > > knowing they are passing up a treasure.
> > >
> > > But if an individual believes in his Creator and sincerely
strives
> > to obey
> > > scripture - including giving attention to the inate sense of
right
> > and wrong
> > > Allah places in all of our hearts (see al Baqara 2:256) - then
that
> > person
> > > must be treated as a believer. The fact that their scripture
may be
> > > outdated is not the issue.
> > >
> > > The Quran says this, it says it clearly.
> > > Be careful and think before you contradict the One Who wrote it!
> > > --
> > > --
> > > --
> > >
> > > G. Waleed Kavalec
> > > -------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 05 Apr 2007 09:29:58 -0700, gmuzafary_2006 <gmuzafary_2006@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > sallam,
> > > >
> > > > let me get this straight,you are saying that those who refuse
> > islam
> > > > but they say yes there is a creator.that person is a person
with
> > > > right faith and right mind?if this is what you mean iam sorry
to
> > say
> > > > that you might be wrong,because there is no reason for some
one to
> > > > refuse islam,if they truely believe in allah,there is no
todays
> > islam
> > > > and tomorrow or yesterdays islam,islam is only one true way to
> > know
> > > > allah,yes poeple have been changed time by time,they are
geting
> > more
> > > > modern,but if some one wants to find out true islam,they can
find
> > it
> > > > easily,and a true lover of allah will never refuse his last
> > messanger
> > > > s,a,w.trust me on this one.its an other story if they have
not got
> > > > the knowledge about islam yet,and they are worshiping allah by
> > their
> > > > own style,which is impossible in this time.
> > > >
> > > > there are those who follow other scriptures let them be
judged by
> > > > those scriptures.as i said before,before the prophet mohamad
s,a,w
> > > > there were other books which came down,and every nation will
be
> > > > judged according to there book and messanger and there
time.allah
> > is
> > > > talking about those who reacieved his diffent book at diffrent
> > > > times.all the books were telling the poeple the same thing.so
> > there
> > > > should not be any diffrence between books of allah,those who
have
> > > > pure faith will never refuse allah 12 imam a,s and the prophet
> > > > mohamad s,a,w after geting all the information on it.
> > > >
> > > > and if they refuse after all the evidence which will prove
that
> > islam
> > > > is the only way to reach allah,to achieve success in the here
> > > > after,and they say they still believe in allah.trust me they
are
> > > > liers.its an excuse they will make.
> > > >
> > > > and other then true moslims we have no heart relation with any
> > human
> > > > being,because those who reject allah are not among us.we have
got
> > two
> > > > diffrent paths,path of allah and path of shaitan.
> > > >
> > > > allah nigheban
> > > >
> > > > gullpary muzafary
> > > > age=22
> > > > toronto,canada
> > > > --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com <kanoshia%
40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>, "G.WaleedKavalec" <kavalec@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Walaikum asalaam
> > > > >
> > > > > What gets presented to the non-Muslim world as "Islam"
> > > > > vs. what Islam actually is
> > > > > are two very different things.
> > > > >
> > > > > Allah knows the intent of each person; if someone has
rejected
> > > > today's
> > > > > "packaging" of Islam it does not mean they are refusing to
> > submit
> > > > to the
> > > > > Creator.
> > > > >
> > > > > Go back to Surah 5, start at ayat 40 and read about a dozen
> > > > verses. That is
> > > > > your Creator talking, and HE says there of that those who
follow
> > > > the other
> > > > > scriptures "let them be judged" by those scriptures.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, no, they are NOT obligated to become Quran-reading
Muslims.
> > > > They are
> > > > > obligated to be true to their monotheistic faith as they
> > understand
> > > > it...
> > > > > the rest is between each of them and Allah.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 04 Apr 2007 12:37:37 -0700, gmuzafary_2006
<gmuzafary_2006@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > sallam,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i got your point now,yes all those who believe in allah
are
> > > > > > moslims,not nonmoslims or unbelievers,but shariq was
talking
> > about
> > > > > > nonmoslims,there no single person in the world who truely
> > believe
> > > > in
> > > > > > allah and refuse to live according of qoran,and the
messanger
> > of
> > > > > > allah.before islam allah sended other messangers,who were
> > teaching
> > > > > > the same thing prophet mohamad s,a,w did,so when the
prophet
> > came
> > > > > > every body were supose to agree with him and qoran,they
were
> > > > supose
> > > > > > to eccept injil turat zabur and qoran,but they didnot so
they
> > > > became
> > > > > > nonmoslims,we belive in all the books of allah as long as
its
> > not
> > > > > > mixed up with writings of human beings.but they dont.they
> > their
> > > > > > children are exactly the same,but if their is a single
person
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > world who would agree with qoran and all other true books
of
> > allah
> > > > > > (not the bible now which has been changed several times)
and
> > he or
> > > > she
> > > > > > eccept his or her existence as a servant of allah,no
metter
> > what
> > > > > > culture what religion what background she/he is he/she is
not
> > > > > > nonmoslim or unbeliever any more,and with that kind of
poeple
> > are
> > > > > > from usbut other then that i dont think there is any
> > agrremnets
> > > > > > between us or brotherhood.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > allah nigehban
> > > > > >
> > > > > > gullpary muzafary
> > > > > > age=22
> > > > > > toronto,canada
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com <kanoshia%
40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, "G.WaleedKavalec" <kavalec@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Walaikum asalaam
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i guess my point is that there is no brotherhood
between
> > the
> > > > > > > > lovers and the enemies of the creator.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree wholeheartedly. My counter-point is that we must
> > learn
> > > > to
> > > > > > recognize
> > > > > > > those who love the Creator but who have come along via
other
> > > > paths.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Quran tells us "to every people was sent a
messenger".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even though those other messengers' messages in other
> > cultures
> > > > were
> > > > > > largely
> > > > > > > lost or corrupted there have always been truth seekers
in
> > those
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > > cultures who worked to find the uncorrupted kernals
left in
> > what
> > > > > > they found
> > > > > > > in their lifetimes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > THESE people are brothers.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > G. Waleed Kavalec
> > > > > > > -------------------------
> > > > > > > Age 53
> > > > > > > Richmond, TX
> > > > > > > http://IslamAwakend.com/Quran
<http://islamawakend.com/Quran>
> > <http://islamawakend.com/Quran> <
> > > > http://islamawakend.com/Quran>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 03 Apr 2007 16:02:20 -0700, gmuzafary_2006
> > <gmuzafary_2006@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > sallam,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > maybe iam addressing you both,the problem is that they
> > will
> > > > never
> > > > > > > > wage war directly,they undermine our religion with
> > > > wisdom,they are
> > > > > > > > not gonna stand against and give us awarness of
that,how
> > did
> > > > > > shiatan
> > > > > > > > successfully made adam o hawa agree to disobay
allah,by
> > sweet
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > soft words.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > i guess my point is that there is no brotherhood
between
> > the
> > > > > > lovers
> > > > > > > > and the enemies of the creator.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > we should share our knowledge,truth should never hurt
> > us,we
> > > > must
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > ability to eccept it.from the begining of donia there
> > were no
> > > > good
> > > > > > > > relation between us and them,now they can fool us
thats
> > why we
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > lost our power,islam used to rule the world,but now
world
> > is
> > > > > > ruling
> > > > > > > > islam,there is a reason behind it,and thats our
silence
> > > > infront of
> > > > > > > > nahaq.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > hopefully i made my self clear enough.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > allah nigehban
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > gullpary muzafary
> > > > > > > > age=22
> > > > > > > > toronto,canada
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In kanoshia@yahoogroups.com <kanoshia%
40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com><kanoshia%
> > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, "G.WaleedKavalec" <kavalec@>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Salaam
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Are you addressing me or Hamid?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Either way, unbelievers are only forbidded from
Mecca.
> > > > Beyond
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > we are
> > > > > > > > > not to be oppressor or transgress limits.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > IF THEY WAGE WAR ON US then we retailiate.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What part of this is unclear? It is in your Quran,
read
> > it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 03 Apr 2007 11:11:54 -0700, gmuzafary_2006
> > > > <gmuzafary_2006@>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > beleieve me or not you are totally lost mr
hamid,how
> > is it
> > > > > > > > possible
> > > > > > > > > > for us to co-exist peacefully with unbeleivers?
they
> > dont
> > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > leave their path,and we have got two diffrent
> > > > directions,they
> > > > > > > > ignore
> > > > > > > > > > allah,we worship him,unless if we want to become
> > monafiqs
> > > > > > thats a
> > > > > > > > > > diffrent case.but if your imaan is pure you cant
live
> > > > > > peacefully
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > them,becuase world of allah and the world of
shaitan
> > is
> > > > never
> > > > > > > > > > alike.this world is made for shitan to live and
for
> > human
> > > > > > beings
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > be tasted,no thing more nothing less.
> > > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > -------------------------
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> -------------------------
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